He Made $500K/Month from SEO - Then Google Destroyed His Sites (Jacky Chou)

Introduction to SEO Expertise [00:00]

• Jackie Chow, with 15 years of online experience, shares his journey through various online business models including dropshipping, FBA, private label, D2C, niche sites, and agency work.
• His most significant recent successes have come from SEO and niche sites, leading to seven-figure revenue exits.
• A pivot to software has been beneficial, especially after observing the challenges faced by others in the SEO and niche site space.

"I kind of saw the writing on the wall for SEO the niche sites in the last couple years people getting clapped."

Black Hat SEO Tactics and SEO Contests [01:44]

• Chow reveals participation in an SEO contest within his private community, using a made-up keyword "flamico" with zero initial search results.
• Tactics involve "spicy" link building, particularly those used in the casino niche, leveraging canonicals and href lang tags.
• The strategy of canonicalizing a backlink-heavy secondary site to a main domain aims to "juice" the main site without directly passing penalties.
• The rationale is that canonicals and href lang links do not pass penalties as effectively as direct backlinks, acting as a buffer against algorithmic punishment.

"As of late canonicals or uh href links do not pass on penalties. So for example, if you build a 100 backlinks to a single site right now today, um the algo will probably punish you instead of um pushing your rankings up."

Strategic Link Building with Canonicalization and href lang [03:41]

• href lang tags are used to point to different language versions of a site (e.g., Spanish and German pointing to the English main site).
• This allows building links to the non-English versions while shielding the primary English site from potential penalties.
• The SEO contest also sees diverse tactics like press releases and PBNs being employed by participants.

"So, um like uh lang uh href langs I mean so meaning I mean for your audience a quick rundown would be I have another site somewhere which I pounded with back links and then I'll just canonical it to my main domain and uh hence juicing it"

The Current State of Search Algorithms and Building in Public [04:26]

• Chow suggests that Google engineers are currently focused on AI products, potentially leaving the core search algorithm less actively developed.
• This perceived lack of significant changes in the organic search algorithm allows for aggressive SEO tactics.
• He notes a past lesson learned from publicly sharing his success, leading to sites being "clapped" by Google.
• This experience has made him more cautious about broadcasting wins, prioritizing making money in the background.

"I've learned my lesson in the past. Uh, I'm a big build in public kind of guy. So I've been reporting my numbers online for the last like 3 years or so like on a monthly basis."

Past Successes and Google Penalties [05:18]

• Chow recounts building a network of over 15 partner sites with legacy media businesses, generating up to $500k per month in affiliate revenue.
• Google's algorithm updates "clamped down" and destroyed these sites, causing a significant financial hit.
• This led to a decision to be more secretive about future major successes.

"So, I was like, 'You know what? Next time if I hit something big like this, I'm going to sit on my hands uh like just shut my mouth and just like make as much money as possible.'"

The Danger of Announcing Wins and Dealing with Haters [06:29]

• Both speakers agree that announcing successes can be dangerous, as it attracts negative attention and can lead to a loss of those wins shortly after.
• The motivation behind publicizing wins is often to inspire others, as seen in shared MRR (Monthly Recurring Revenue) figures that demonstrate perseverance.
• However, this also attracts "haters" who may become resentful or attempt to sabotage.
• Chow notes that experienced online professionals can often ignore haters by understanding their motivations, which frequently stem from their own lack of success or being "screwed by gurus."

"And I think it's just most of the time I think if anyone even like anyone especially like your listeners or your viewers if they stick to anything for 90 days they're 100% make 10K per month 100%."

White Hat, Gray Hat, and Black Hat Link Building Tactics [10:07]

• Any link building is considered black hat by Google's standards, as direct building is discouraged.
• White hat tactics are identified as digital PR, which involves securing mentions on reputable sites like Forbes or WSJ.
• A method for digital PR includes finding interesting public data, visualizing it (e.g., in Canva), posting it on relevant subreddits with purchased upvotes, and then having reporters pick up the story.
• Gray hat tactics are less clearly defined but can include methods that are ethically ambiguous.
• Hand-registering citations for local businesses (e.g., Yelp, Foursquare) is cited as a white hat local SEO strategy.

"Um, I think white hat probably digital PR. Um, so I talked about this a lot in the past, but um, digital PR is essentially you're just getting real mentions on like these uh, PR sites, right? Like Forbes, um, WSJ, so forth."

Black Hat Link Building Strategies and Platform Exploitation [15:36]

• Black hat tactics include PBNs and link tiering.
• A key strategy involves exploiting high Domain Rating (DR) 90+ sites like Facebook groups, Amazon, Reddit, and Unclapable, which Google is perceived to have fewer filters for.
• This involves creating self-owned subreddits, populating them with fake posts and comments, and then redirecting penalized domains to these subreddits to boost their rankings.
• Purchasing activity (upvotes, comments) for these subreddits is necessary to maintain natural-looking engagement.
• Facebook groups are now emerging as a similar ranking opportunity as Reddit.

"So, what I've done in the past is you just build your own subreddit, you can create a ton of fake uh Reddit posts, fake Reddit comments, and then you just make it look active and then it'll rank."

Redirecting Penalized Domains and Amazon Listing Optimization [17:06]

• Penalized domains can be redirected to relevant subreddits to leverage any residual authority or ranking potential.
• The content from previously ranking pages, even on penalized domains, is still considered valuable by Google.
• Amazon listings are identified as an easy target for ranking by sending traffic and backlinks, as they are seen as "parasites" that benefit from external signals without needing traditional domain authority.

"Um, because I've been clapped so many times in the past where my sites just get de-indexed, right? So, I've been able to just redirect those sites to um, for example, if I have an architecture or home niche site that used to rank for like best lawn mower, I'm able to redirect that domain to something like our Reddit uh Reddit/ um I don't know, gardening tips and then you you'll be if you start posting like those same articles on your previous domain that used to rank on that subreddit, it'll start ranking as well."

CTR Manipulation and "Browser Blast" [22:34]

• Click-through rate (CTR) manipulation is still actively practiced.
• Traditional proxy-based CTR software is considered obsolete.
• A new method, "browser blast," involves sending large volumes of cheap, real human traffic from sources like adult sites to a target domain or URL.
• This strategy aims to imitate virality and signal to Google that a page is trending, leading to ranking improvements, particularly for pages already ranking in the top three.
• Running Meta ads specifically targeting Chrome users is suggested as a DIY method to test this concept.

"So, what I've noticed in AI mode is especially Google AI mode. All right, I'm not talking about CHBT. They take a lot of their uh citations from top ranking articles on Google. So, it's just it's like a long way of saying it's it's still it's the same thing."

Rank and Rent in the Age of AI [26:22]

• Rank and rent involves ranking a website for a local service keyword and then renting out leads or selling them on a cost-per-lead basis.
• In the AI era, with ads and AI overviews dominating search results, traffic to organic listings has decreased, making traditional rank and rent less effective unless targeting rural areas.
• However, ranking a Google My Business profile is significantly easier than organic SEO, offering a strong advantage.
• Retail rank and rent (e.g., ranking for "best protein powder" and selling sponsored listings) is also impacted, with significant drops in revenue potential due to reduced traffic.

"So what it looks like right now is like four ads, AI overview, local map pack, and then organic results. You're not getting much traffic unless you're in like a rural area where they haven't really rolled out AI mode or ads."

Idea Evaluation and Business Launch Strategy [30:13]

• When evaluating ideas, Chow prioritizes validation to ensure a product or service actually works before committing resources.
• He emphasizes launching quickly, often within weeks, to test product-market fit within his audience.
• If a product shows strong revenue and audience alignment, he goes "all in"; otherwise, it's either killed or put on autopilot.
• He doesn't primarily focus on TAM (Total Addressable Market) but looks for mature spaces and uses a bundling strategy, similar to Adobe, offering multiple services under one subscription at a competitive price.

"Um I mean if if you've seen my execution nowadays now it's it's always partnered up. So I have someone executing and I have to validate if an idea works first of all."

Deep Dive into SEO Origins and Algorithm Validation [34:25]

• Chow's deep dive into SEO began with discovering dropshipping and SEO simultaneously on Black Hat World.
• After initial success in dropshipping, he reinvested profits into niche sites and began optimizing them.
• The core principle for understanding algorithms is validation: testing tactics from various sources across multiple sites and discarding those that don't work.
• He dismisses claims that PBNs or citations don't work as fundamentally flawed, and emphasizes that current tactics are effective "at this very moment."

"The most important way to figure out any algorithm, not just SEO, is you'll hear a lot of people give you the sauce, right? Like they're like, 'Oh, yeah, you just have to do so like these 10 steps.' But you have to always validate it."

SEO Basics and Industry Entry [36:56]

• The fundamental SEO basic taught is to search target keywords on Google, analyze the top-ranking pages, and imitate a combination of their elements (e.g., keyword in title).
• Combining existing strategies, possibly with AI assistance, makes it "stupid easy."
• The SEO market is considered open for new entrants, especially in restricted niches (e.g., casino, cannabis, adult) where AI mode is less likely to trigger, leaving traditional "10 blue links" results.
• For SaaS, paid ads are recommended over SEO content; for e-commerce, SEO is supplementary to paid ads; and for niche publishers (affiliates), SEO remains a primary strategy.

"SEO basics. I think the basics, stupid basics, is like if you have a target keyword, you just search it on Google, see what's ranking, and then just imitate a combination of all the pages on the front page of Google for that respective keyword."

The Case of House Fresh and Algorithm Recoveries [40:31]

• The affiliate niche site "House Fresh" was heavily impacted by the HCU update in 2023, dropping from 50k organic visits to 1k.
• Remarkably, it has since recovered and quadrupled its previous all-time high, reaching 200k organic visits.
• Chow believes this is a combination of getting out of the HCU penalty tag, Google making a correction, and strong marketing efforts including YouTube and branded searches.
• He notes that 99% of other similarly impacted sites have not recovered, suggesting potential Google intervention or a unique recovery mechanism for House Fresh.

"That was in 2023. Get they got they got super rocked. They went down to 1x to to 1,000 visits a month from organic search. Now they are at like 200,000 visits a month from organic search."

Negative SEO and Disavowals [49:36]

• Negative SEO attacks using backlinks can be effective for short-term disruption, especially with exact-match anchors on specific pages.
• Chow advises disavowing backlinks only if a penalty is confirmed and a negative attack is suspected; otherwise, time is better spent elsewhere.
• He personally refrains from performing negative SEO, drawing a line there, but if he were to do it, he would rapidly build links with exact-match anchors to a competitor's page to cause a ranking spike followed by a crash.

"Um, yes, you can ramp up your GSA if you're someone pisses you off online, but um I I it's not something I do. I think people who I've been approached several times in the past asking to do negative SEO on other people. I just don't do it."

AI Content Citation and SEO Strategies [51:25]

• ChatGPT is observed to primarily cite Wikipedia for general queries and YouTube for Gemini and Perplexity. Reddit is no longer cited openly.
• A strategy to get cited involves creating Wikipedia pages or ensuring consistent mentions on highly cited sources.
• Wikipedia backlinks, even no-follows, are considered valuable for AI training data due to their context and crawlability.
• Getting into Wikipedia can be achieved through paid editors or by gaining significant press coverage, especially controversial or notable mentions.

"So, using that knowledge what you can do is you can write let's say if I'm trying to be cited for best local SEO software and I see that Wikipedia is being cited what I would do is I would create try to get a Wikipedia page right for local rank for example and in that Wikipedia page I would have multiple citations that lists local rank as number one local SEO software."

AI for CRO and Landing Page Optimization [56:47]

• ChatGPT Atlas is used daily for A/B testing suggestions on landing pages, including headlines, button designs, and overall layout improvements.
• It's highly effective for Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) by leveraging best practices.
• Key CRO principles include having a clear call to action above the fold, avoiding carousels, and always including a VSSL (video sales letter) for pages with significant traffic.
• For paid ads, dedicated landing pages (replicas of non-indexed site pages) with minimal navigation (only essential legal links) are crucial to drive conversions, as users often don't scroll.
• Dumbing down language and focusing on selling results (benefits) rather than features is a significant CRO game-changer.

"Um, I use it every day. So because we run a lot of ads, right? Um we run a lot of ads. So our landing pages need to be tweaked and I just use Atlas to like give suggestions like, 'Hey, um I want to test a a different headline. Can you suggest a different headline?'"

AI Writing and Automation Tools [10:08:10]

• AI tools like Koala are used for listicles and affiliate articles.
• An in-house tool, Garen.ai, generates X posts based on video content and past viral posts.
• ChatGPT is used for newsletter copy, leveraging project-based context for personalized output.
• Black Friday planning is heavily assisted by ChatGPT, focusing on bonuses for existing customers rather than just discounts.
• Basic automation, like Zapier or Pavly, is used for simple "if this, then that" workflows.
• Cursor, an AI-powered code editor, is recommended for individuals starting out in building applications.

"Blog posts, we use something called Koala for like listicles. Um, like affiliate articles, we use Koala."